Chased From Sweden, Pirate Bay Sails To Ukraine


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Posted by enigmax 81.25.40.199 October 08, 2009 at 07:20:21:

In reply:
Pirate Bay Censorship Case Not Over Yet posted by Ernesto 91.187.3.74 December 11, 2008 at 09:23:30:

Original text: Earlier this year a Danish court ordered the ISP ‘Tele2′ to block its customers from accessing The Pirate Bay http://thepiratebay.org/ . The appeal of this initial ruling was ..

In August 2009 the bandwidth supplier to The Pirate Bay was ordered by a court to disconnect the world’s largest BitTorrent tracker from the Internet. Within hours the site had relocated to a new host which immediately received similar entertainment industry threats. Now it seems the Bay has left Sweden, setting sail for Ukraine.

At the end of August, Stockholm’s district court ordered Black Internet, the bandwidth supplier to The Pirate Bay, to disconnect the site from the Internet, pending the outcome of a civil action taken by several Hollywood entertainment companies.

The ISP had little choice but to comply or face large fines, but TPB was quick to react and quickly partnered with a new host.

That short honeymoon was quickly over.

“It took just 20 minutes before the Hollywood companies telephoned the new host who took over operation of The Pirate Bay,” commented Patrik http://torrentfreak.com/.. from the ISP which had been indirectly supplying bandwidth to TPB.

Despite initially putting on a brave face and standing strong, Patrik’s company continued to feel the heat. It is not a large outfit and doesn’t have the resources to fight the entertainment industry and its threats.

Last night, Patrik could hold off no longer after receiving mounting threats from the entertainment industries, which culminated in threats of a court summons. Having come this far, there is little doubt that IFPI and the MPAA would litigate if necessary.

“I was threatened by the movie and music companies,” Patrik said today. He had no choice but to stop servicing TPB. His company cut off the site’s bandwidth last night but The Pirate Bay is fully operational, so they must’ve found another host. It’s likely that they already had one prepared.

With Sweden seemingly out of bounds, the site needed to move overseas. The Netherlands is not really an option anymore and the same goes for most of Western Europe – the solution lies in the east.

On the heels of several rumors today, Patrik said he could confirm news of the move, saying that he believes The Pirate Bay is now hosted in Ukraine.

There have been signs that this Eastern European nation is becoming an attractive location for torrent site hosting, with several large sites and services showing interest.

However, as illustrated by the on-going problems at Demonoid http://torrentfreak.com/.. , TorrentFreak is told that the reliability can leave a lot to be desired, with sites having to take measures to ensure that when their Ukrainian hosting becomes unavailable, backup resources kick in.

The standard of Pirate Bay’s new home (if it is indeed in Ukraine) isn’t likely to reflect the comparative luxury of Sweden, but that door seems to be all but closed now. Whether the site stays in Ukraine is another question, but that aside, a simple one remains;

Would you host The Pirate Bay in Sweden? The answer will likely match the response to “Do you like lawsuits?”

Maybe the Swedish government’s nightmare is finally over.

2 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:48 by bald1

why not move to spain they seem rather torrent friendly and its warm
3 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:49 by Jasper100

i hope the nightmare of the gov will continue since they listend to those greedy companies!
4 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:51 by Jasper100

@2 they don’t like ads on torrent sites since that money could be used to profit (i know tpb doesn’t but anyway they are no choice)
5 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:51 by damien

Right now The Pirate Bay is still in Sweden, on the IP 194.71.107.15, which belongs to the ISP Kungliga Tekniska Hogskola .
6 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:54 by vyvyan

no wonder they can’t find a single judge not employed by pro-copyright group.
7 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:56 by Reasoned Mind

Running and hiding as the individual countries come to their senses and kick them out.

Looks like TPB is following the pedo’s business plan. lol
8 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:57 by http://www.eZee.se

Thats one nice thing about being on a ship… you can simply sail away into the sunset (like one of those old cowboy flicks) to greener pastures.

“Maybe the Swedish government’s nightmare is finally over.”
Not by a lonnnng shot, the govt. are the ones who illegally interfered in the first raid, corrupt cop (Jim K) corrupt judge (Thomas N) corrupt sl*t (Beatrice Ask) continued corruption (appeal fiasco)…pirate party, pirate movement… not by a loooong shot my friend.
9 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:59 by http://www.eZee.se/

@reasoned mind,
Read the article again, nobody kicked them out… the made a calculated decision to move, although I know you would have preferred they stayed like General Custer till the end… after all “the internet police are coming” :P
10 Oct 02, 2009 at 19:59 by austin

no it’s definitely dcp networks
http://whois.domaintools.com/..

it says fredrik.neij@teneco.se is the contact. and its in stockholm
11 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:32 by Josef

FFS, now Ukraine will be targeted. TPB go back to sweden
and fight there or die there.
12 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:35 by Andriy

In case the movement to Ukraine is true – welcome to Ukraine! :D
13 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:37 by Anti-Pirate

@7 Reasoned Mind

Don’t you want to tell me how you got this job?

You see I am interested!

Thanks!

I am qualified because I hate pirate! it’s in my family!

Please let me know! I would really really do this type of job.

I am serious!
14 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:40 by Sendaii

@7: (Assuming that this is the real RM) Hehe, you seem to be getting less reasoned every day, mate =D

Comparing us to paedophiles today, what will it be tomorrow? Rapists? Murderers?
15 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:43 by Anti-Pirate

@Reasoned Mind

P.S. – And I’m also lonely and bitter and have an inferiority complex (that’s a plus, right?).
16 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:04 by mu57i11

It would actually be better if tpb just died and we all found someware else. Any country that hosts it is going to be targeted by the big 4 because of the popularitty of tpb. It would be much better for us all if tpb just stopped operating – it would save all the other torrent sites that are hosted in ukraine. Its much better to say goodbye to one well known torrent site and save 10’s of other ones than keep tpb but slowly turn every country against hosting torrent sites.
17 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:05 by Anon

“FFS, now Ukraine will be targeted.”

QFT.

TPB will be chased there too, which will make other sites hosted in the Ukraine a bigger target, i.e. Demonoid.
18 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:08 by MissedMemories

Uh.. that’s NOT Reasoned Mind.. he would never use “lol” (as far as I know).. If I’m wrong.. correct me.. We really need some kind of registering service.. it gets annoying not knowing if that’s Reasoned Mind… :P

Back on topic.. Well.. I wonder why don’t they do a P2P Site (Is hosted all over the world, just like a torrent =) )
19 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:12 by H

http://geotool.flagfox.net/
20 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:16 by Reasoned Mind

I am a huge troll, please kill me.
21 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:18 by ruinyourlife

You do know that copying of copyrighted works IS against the law, In certain countries? Reasoned Mind is absolutely right in all of his posts.

I’m a member of many private sites, download movies and music have around 13tb of illegibly downloaded materials, and Reasoned Mind is RIGHT.

I’m breaking the law. At least I have the balls to admit it. Get your collective heads out of your asses, stop calling it sharing, grow a pair and admit you download for ONE reason and ONE reason alone. To get something for nothing. I have.
22 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:20 by ruinyourlife

lol illegibly = illegally. Damn firefox auto spell check.
23 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:41 by velvetfog

It seems to me that enigmax should have done a traceroute on thepiratebay.org before writing this item.

http://www.ip-adress.com/..
24 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:43 by Glemball

This is just a game of chess always think one move ahead as TPB is doing.And if in the end there is nowhere left to go then you must strike,as in we all get togeather and play what site will we crash today until they leave us alone.Think first..
25 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:51 by redmarine

Seems like they’ve added the Pirate Bay back now.

Check it out:

http://www.google.com/search
26 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:52 by Anonymous

I wonder if there is enough power in Ukraine for two trackers!
27 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:54 by Bakune

Most of us both upload and download. Most of what is uploaded involves both work to prepare the files and an initial legitimate purchase. P2P is sharing, at least for a lot of us. All the work to crack software is done altruistically for the benefit of the community. To say all filesharing is theft is wrong. No, more than that, it is pure BS.
28 Oct 02, 2009 at 21:57 by ruinyourlife

Case in point:
I have a blu-ray rip of star trek that I downloaded via bittorrent copied to my ps3. I have no intention of buying it on release day.

Is this stealing?
29 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:02 by Bakune

I check out videos from the local library that I have no intention of buying. Is that stealing? Let the MPAA start suing libraries next. One initial purchase, followed by the mooching by a bunch of leechers….
30 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:03 by Eric

They should really move to a country who’s government isn’t entangled in the affairs of Western Culture and is deemed an enemy of the state already to some countries.
31 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:04 by ruinyourlife

The majority of downloaders, (backed up by top 10 lists, search clouds, seeders vs. leachers, etc. are NOT downloading things that they own the license to. The argument I keep hearing is “LINUX IS FREE SO BITTORRENT CANT BE ILLEGAL!!!” Seriously, look at how many people are seeding Ubuntu on your favorite torrent site vs how many people are seeding flavor of the month hollywood bowel movement.

P2P is NOT sharing in the end, In the end it is getting something for free. I enjoy it, and it is sicking to see you people constantly try to call it something it’s not. Who are you defending yourselves against? We won, we might as well rub it in the copyright holder’s noses a bit.
32 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:05 by ruinyourlife

“I check out videos from the local library that I have no intention of buying. Is that stealing? Let the MPAA start suing libraries next. One initial purchase, followed by the mooching by a bunch of leechers….”

Your library is there because of taxes. You paid for that video already. Also, you are an idiot.
33 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:07 by Glemball

@28 It means you have gone where none have gone before.
34 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:10 by ruinyourlife

@33 I loled.
35 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:13 by Bakune

Laws are made by the moneyed elite and are highly influenced by rich lobbyists. The average person on the street does not find objectionable copying CD’s, photocopying manuscripts, or ripping music. If what is legal is what is the will of the people, not just a reflection of the will of the rich, then filesharing can be considered legal in many parts of the world. De facto legal anyway.
36 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:19 by ruinyourlife

@35

Wouldn’t it be nice…? But the fact remains. The law IS the reflection of the will of the rich. and it still is breaking the law. You think the “will of the people” argument would hold up in court? No. Absolutely not.

It is a sad state of affairs we live in, but it’s what we have to deal with. We are criminals. But I don’t think it is US that are the evil ones.
37 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:30 by Matheus Svensson

@damien (5) & austin (10): It’s not important who the IP address block belongs to. You need to look at where the packets get routed to.

@velvetfog (23): I’m sure enigmax did do a traceroute. When I did one, shortly after this article went up, the IP address for thepiratebay.org routed to the Ukraine. The last hop was from 188.95.153.98, in the Ukraine, as where the preceding few hops. As I write this, something seems to have gone awry with the routing tables; thepiratebay.org is currently unreachable.
38 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:35 by Rex

@2 Torrentsites like TPB are not legal in Spain…. :rolleyes:
39 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:37 by anon

As of 21:22 uk time tpb is down :(
40 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:40 by ME

Is it possible the site is down or,… Don’t have access to it for now (tried these: http://thepiratebay.org/; http://www.piratebay.org/)
41 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:41 by ME

well let’s hope we will see it again soon.
42 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:55 by BigJ

I am LoL at most of the lame comments.

P2P is whatever you make of it, there are an equal number of uses that are legal, as well as illegal. The bottom line is that the proliferation of “piracy” is in direct correlation to the greed and strong-arm tactics of the media industry.

What was once a small underground and manageable movement of file-”sharers” has become a mass movement by the general populace. Most feel that they have a god given right to pirate items due to the complete shafting they have received up to this point. Whatever justification you want to use, there is no right or wrong. In the days of the Renaissance piracy was encouraged, pushed, it helped to drive competition, motivated people to continue to improve upon a given work, be it music, theatre, innovation, science.

In comes a model of scarcity and corporate business structures that capitalize on it. They legislate congress to pass laws that protect their dying business models instead of innovating and coming up with creative new ways to stay on top of the marketplace.

Now the West pushes this new set of ideals to the rest of the world without ever re-evaluating if its wrong or not, and use legal attacks and government resources to combat something that they feel they *SHOULD* be making a healthy profit on.

We are at a point now where these corporations are attacking the very people that made it successful in the first place.

I have very strong reasons to “pirate” the media that I consume and for me these reasons are personal. Keep in mind that the larger majority of the masses do not feel that what they are doing is wrong. They may not be able to give you a good and definitive reason as to why, but they most certainly don’t feel that one song on the internet is worth upwards of US$10,000

You need only look as far as I-Tunes to realize that a better business model combats a new generation of potential “thieves”. I still use the power of my wallet to support and give back to the community, albeit at my choosing and in the amount that i feel suffices for the media i consume. This amount is different for each individual. Some may choose to release mix-tapes, make a cool and swaggy youtube video, film a home movie, or do a school project. All of these alternative uses enrich our culture and give back in ways that do not have a monetary value.

The world is changing, and whether or not you choose to attack people for how they have decided to consume their media is your choose, but showing a complete lack of understanding of how we got here in the first place and then descriptively and rudely assassinating people for their choices is not the best way to work on a solution as a community.

I support file sharing, i support the ability to consume media in a way that works for me personally, is it right or wrong that I may or may not download the new “Hollywood Blockbuster” and keep a copy on my hard drive to watch at my leisure? I do not feel that it is anyone’s business to judge that. To claim that a single download is a lost sale is ridiculous.

Our US laws would speak a clear cut black and white line, screaming loudly that you not only broke the law, but hurt and unemployed hundreds of other individuals. The punishments for a single track are more than grand theft auto, drinking & driving, distributing controlled substances, and the list goes on.

We are definitely at a media consumption cross-roads, and the things we do now, as a community, can either hurt everyone for generations, or build a better future.

Banding together is my choice. thepiratebay has helped MY community immensely because they became more than the sum of its parts, it became a symbol, an icon. These are the types of things that happen when people band together and make a stand for what they believe in. I am proud to be a part of that community and I hope that our group continues to support their efforts, but again, it is your choice.

~J
43 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:55 by Cujo

vpn..torrent we got to do something ;P
44 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:00 by Reasoned Mind

@ruinyourlife

Stop Trolling! That’s my job damnit!
45 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:04 by Pirate Chicken Choker

WTF! ruinyourlife is the new REasoneD MiND? DAmN TROlLs
46 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:10 by Bobe-On (Canned Response)

Canned response:
http://torrentfreak.com/..

Caring is sharing canned response.
:)
47 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:15 by lol

e così la svezia si è alla fine dimostrata una nazione di teste di cazzo, altro che i più civilizzati d’europa. in culo, coglioni, e pecoroni i vostri abitanti, buon pro vi faccia! fate ridereeeeee!!!
48 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:27 by skfd

??? ? !
49 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:37 by OstricisePplWhoPay2Win

swedes are fags and pussies I hope they get sued anyway after bending over the table
50 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:42 by dwpbike

tpb must have gone – now i can’t get tpb or demonoid
51 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:42 by ruinyourlife

On my phone so this will be short. I’m not a troll. I pirate more then most of you probably. Why can’t you just admit its unlawful?
52 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:43 by michael8124

http://en.wikipedia.org/..

“Passed on October 12, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the U.S. Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended Title 17 of the United States Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of the providers of on-line services for copyright infringement by their users.”

“On May 22, 2001, the European Union passed the EU Copyright Directive….the exemption from direct and indirect liability of internet service providers and other intermediaries…”

Really? So the DMCA is suppose to limit the liabilities of ISP’s to be held accountable for copyright infringement? And yet TPB’s ISP was ordered to disconnect them, or get taken to court? None of this makes sense to me.

@45
If we didn’t have internet trolls, homosexuals, RIAA, Nancy Pelosi, who would we make fun of and laugh at? The people in the special olympics? Oh wait…didn’t Obama compare his bowling abilities to that of someone from the special olympics on a talk show and then apologized after they got mad at him a few months ago?
53 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:43 by jackazz

The pirate bay is down. 5:43 eastern time U.S
54 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:45 by Glemball

I personally feel its time to take the fight to them,Some of you out there are amazing with anything to do with the internet,its time to focus on keeping what you do alive.Come up with ideas to stop these people from shutting the sites down.Stay togeather as one,they want to divide us..Im personally pissed off at having done vinal,cassette,cd,video and dvd i feel im the one that has been ripped off.Time to stand up people..
55 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:49 by jackazz

@ 53
Right on brother! (fist in the air)
56 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:52 by michael8124

WTH? My comment at 52 says: “Your response is awaiting moderation.”
But I didn’t use foul language. Damn Torrent Freak. Now it will take hours for my comment to be posted and it probably won’t be #52 anymore.

@54
I agree. What’s funny is that the entertainment industries claimed V.H.S tapes and stereo cassettes would ruing them because people can use them to record things. They said the same thing about c.d. burners when they came out. Has technology ruined them yet? No. But the way they are going, my guess is, that it will be their own artists leaving and going independent and more and more new artists going independent, that will eventually ruin them. Ironic if you think about it.
57 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:54 by Reasoned Mind

@ 13 Oct 02, 2009 at 20:37 by Anti-Pirate

Q: Don’t you want to tell me how you got this job?

A: I swallow
58 Oct 02, 2009 at 23:54 by michael8124

Oops. I meant “ruin”, not “ruing”. dang typos. I blame society for my occasional bad spelling.
59 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:05 by nnsa

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://www.thepiratebay.org/
60 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:18 by Det

Same for me (11AM NZDT)

Traceroute hits a dead end at my ISP’s international bandwidth provider.
61 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:20 by Reasoned Mind

@Glemball 53,
It’s important to understand and make the distinction between free speech and privacy and making a copy of a song or book or movie and making it available to anyone who wants a copy for free. The first is a cherished right in most countries. The second, an unlawful infringement in all but a few.

No one least of all me would hope to stop true free speech. And the past 10 years has essentially allowed piracy to flourish in some sectors precisely *because* of governments reticence to abridge these established freedoms.

But our privacy stops right at the edge of using it to shield unlawful acts, and people have little problem with abridging the privacy and freedom of those who would abuse it over and over. Witness prisons.

P2P is a brilliant technology with near infinite legal use, but the more pirates use it to infringe, the more, justifiably, P2P is tarnished.

Militant nonsense like the post at 53 only inflames misdirected chestpounding when cooler/thoughtful heads should prevail.

If pirates want a respectful and open forum for their agenda to be heard and to compel laws to migrate to accommodate our digital future, the pirate rhetoric must be toned down and the unlawful acts must draw to a close willfully, with pride and great public discipline, in exchange for amnesty and a fair hearing of these issues. While pirates continue, few, perhaps only the pirates themselves, blame the industries for acting as they do.

When a militant Socialist like Billy Bragg thinks you are getting this wrong, you’d be very wise to listen.
62 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:20 by nikhiludgirkar

where’s piratebay I have been trying to load piratebay but it’s not loading
one of my most favourite sites
I curse MPAA
Fuck MPAA and piratebay-haters
u shit
63 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:21 by nikhiludgirkar

where’s pirate bay
I love piratebay.org
fuck MPAA and fuck TPB-haters
u scumbags ugly freaks
64 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:41 by Tom Drake

@60

Yeah I get a tracert timeout at:-

inetnum: 217.47.192.0 – 217.47.255.255
netname: BT-MIDBAND
descr: BT-MIDBAND
country: GB
admin-c: KJH5-RIPE
tech-c: KJH5-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
remarks: Please send abuse notification to
mnt-by: BTNET-MNT
mnt-lower: BTNET-MNT
mnt-routes: BTNET-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered

..which I assume is something similar to your problem…
65 Oct 03, 2009 at 00:43 by michael8124

@51 ruinyourlife

“On my phone so this will be short. I’m not a troll. I pirate more then most of you probably. Why can’t you just admit its unlawful?”

Perhaps you are not a troll. But you are nagging people and apparently, nobody cares.

Just to make you happy and so you will shut up, I personally admit that file-sharing is “unlawful” in some form or another.

But you need to understand some people have reasons for it, other than “I want it for free”. One of the biggest reasons, I think, is that people are tired of not getting their money’s worth and have lost faith in the system.

The last newly released music album I bought was Metallica: St. Anger. I heard one or two songs from that album on the radio and liked them. Sadly the rest of the songs I hated. I like Metallica, and was excited they finally had a new album out after Jason Newstead left, and was waiting for them to replace him. I was very disappointed with it.

The last movie I saw in the theater was Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer in 2007. Wasn’t worth the $8.75 I payed for a ticket. When I started going to movies around 1996 with friends, a single adult ticket was around $2.50. I noticed that every year movie theater tickets go up around 50-75 cents, and the entertainment goes down.

You sound kinda like John McCain did on the campaign when he asked Barrack Obama several times “Why won’t you admit the insurgency in Iraq worked?”. And Obama STILL hasn’t admitted it, to my knowledge.
66 Oct 03, 2009 at 01:00 by marianne1953

It was gone after I’ve changed IE7 to IE8.0 – even jusing an open server thru the TCP/IP adjustment.
????
67 Oct 03, 2009 at 01:16 by michael8124

@63
You actually use Internet Explorer??
You should try Mozilla Firefox web browser. It’s free and they have sooo many addons for it. One addon I use for searching torrents is the Torrent Finder Toolbar.

http://www.mozilla.org/
68 Oct 03, 2009 at 02:05 by Lookash

thepiratebay.org is up again
Hurra !
69 Oct 03, 2009 at 02:06 by go

[QUOTE]Really? So the DMCA is suppose to limit the liabilities of ISP’s to be held accountable for copyright infringement?[/QUOTE]

Of course. By the DMCA provisions, if they remove the infringing material (after they have received a DMCA notice), they get off. Otherwise, lawsuits may follow as usual.

DMCA compliance is the reason why they haven’t sued Google out of existence for linking to copyrighted material.
70 Oct 03, 2009 at 02:11 by Mr. AnonYmouS

Thepirateby.org is up as of 8:10 EST. It was still down just 10 minutes ago. Alas, they’re still in Sweden.
71 Oct 03, 2009 at 02:40 by Inuit Igloo

Everything is fair in love and war.

Why don’t companies like The Pirate Bay (or other high income generating torrent companies) “feed” money to lobby in government bills. They should also bribe to judges, police officers and everybody in legal system to win their cases just as MPAA do.

If MPAA can “bribe” (in legal way) to judge of court and other justice system people then TPB should also do this. TPB should spend those millions (that they have made) on legal system’s night-soil-eaters to survive. That’s the only way to win the war.

What’s wrong in all these tactics when they are already breaking the law.

TPB should go to the extent to hire guns and thugs and beat the hell out of representative of MPAA and/or vandalize their property.

Asoka The Great once said “there is only rule of war, to win”.
72 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:05 by outlaw

ruinyourlife @22
Trading standards’ say that they [the libraries] have permission as long as they [Trading standards’] go for us .free to the council hunters. One law for them and outlaw us
73 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:24 by outlaw

Inuit Igloo @68
We should all join the pirate party in each country we live. Vote for them. Or all for one month withhold payment to our ISP we employ them it’s not for free, we pay vast sums to them it would cost them billions of . Then they would have to listen to us we pay them not the MPAA and their kin.
74 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:32 by Anonymous

They should’ve done this from the beginning. We’re not going to run out of countries for a good while. Why fight these expensive legal battles when you can just move the servers.
75 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:34 by blaeks

Come to Serbia. There are no laws here. Just make a deal. We are working on torrent tracker on our own:)
http://piratskapartija.com/

cheerz!
76 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:36 by ruinyourlife

@62 you hit the nail on the head. The last movie I paid for was Ghost Rider.
My reasons are the same as yours. My point is, why beat around the bush using spin words like “sharing” we are stealing plain and simple. Using spin words reminds me of another well known organization… The MPAA.
77 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:55 by Anonymous

@73 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:36 by ruinyourlife:

Talk for yourself I don’t see nothing being stole. Infringing on some one elses right maybe just because the law says so but I don’t even think the law is right to begin with.
78 Oct 03, 2009 at 03:58 by .neo.styles|nvDX

It’s almost funny how they think that they can actually run from the law. Fredrik Neij reminds me of one of those guys on those cop shows that’s being chased by a few police cars and trying to outrun them.

They are cornered. This is a last desperate rebuild their illegal online empire.

Ukraine isn’t immune to the law either. Ukraine is bound by copyright law (see something called the “Berne Convention”) and world leaders have always worked together to uphold laws as I suspect it will be the case here too.

The onwers of the pirate bay are also just digging their own hole deeper. They could just come down and admit that what they did was wrong, but no, they are too arrogant and stubborn for this kind of gesture of good will. Then they would have to deal with their everlasting shame of how the “evil people that want you to pay for things” won and their entire fan base which would be blaming them for selling out to the industry. I really doubt anyone who blames anyone for folding here has never had to deal with a lawsuit.
79 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:04 by .neo.styles|nvDX

Talk for yourself I don’t see nothing being stole. Infringing on some one elses right maybe just because the law says so but I don’t even think the law is right to begin with.

You are stealing several things. First off, when you download things, do you pay the creators? No? So how are they supposed to earn money. First off, you are stealing their right to profit from their own work. Second off, movies and music are just like physical products (thanks to something called intellectual property) and if you don’t purchase a license for it, then it’s the equivilent of removing a physical product.

Im sorry if you don’t like the laws, but that doesn’t change them or the very simple moral imperatives that apply here.
80 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:16 by Bobe-On (Canned Response/Pro-File-Sharing FAQ)

Hey guys– and Torrent Freak staff:

I was wondering if we could get a thread going (that the staff could edit/moderate for a solid pro-file-sharing argument reference), or find/refer to one online, that easily, quickly, crisply and succinctly responds to the same old tired, hackneyed, misguided arguments/falsehoods by the RIAA/MPAA/anti-file sharing set?
81 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:19 by Bobe-On (RTFM)

…As in, ‘Read the Fucking Manual’?
:)
82 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:33 by michael8124

@73

Still nagging about that?
if we were “stealing”, then we would be depriving copyright holders of the content entirely. What we do is copy and share. You are as mixed up as reasoned mind.

OK…Say I “steal” your watch….you would no longer have a watch. Say I copied a music c.d. without your permission…would it be stealing when you still have the original disk? What if I go to the library and use the copier to make a copy of a page or two in a book…would it be stealing even though the book never left the library?
If we were “stealing” copyrighted works, then the copyright owners would no longer have the original. And if it was “stealing” and not “sharing”, then you could say that when people download stuff from you that you have in your torrent program, then they are “stealing” from you, even though you don’t own the copyright.
83 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:36 by michael8124

Forgot to add to #76
Bottom line: to steal copyrighted works would mean to deprive the contend owner and/or creator of the work completely.
84 Oct 03, 2009 at 04:43 by michael8124

content. dang typos. :P
85 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:02 by Huggybaby

Enigmax,

Thank you for properly calling Ukraine “Ukraine”, and not “The Ukraine”.

What a relief!
86 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:03 by .neo.styles|nvDX

@79 : so, it means that they can never have any watches to sell again? They can just make new ones, much like your copying which you claim is so unique.
87 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:09 by SamusK

Sweden, the place they thought they could hide from persecution from Record and Movie execs has smoked them out of their illustrious Bay. Now they set sail for darker waters. I guess going to a shit hole of a country.

There are not many places left that will accept them so time is running out for the pirate bay.

Do I get popcorn now or wait until the real show starts.

They Mighty have surely fallen now.
88 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:25 by bob

ruinyourlife is the same guy that posted the first Reasoned mind in this post.

He’s a tool, just ignore. Never admit to something that isn’t true. This is not about stealing, copyright violation isn’t stealing. Anyone who claims that should get their heads out of their ass and leave the discussion forever since they clearly are unable to diffrentiate between types of legislation.

Now fuckoff
89 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:27 by bob

Oh please, even if TPB were to be closed down permanently that wont stop the scene from leaking out onto the net.

Get real you inferior brained retards employing theese conmen named anti-pirates. They’re just leeching your profits, giving no additional gain. Fire the fucking lawyers bleeding you.

Piracy cannot and will not be stopped. Ever.
90 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:30 by juero

@ruinyourlife

“The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over the copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use. While one may colloquially link infringement with some general notion of wrongful appropriation, infringement plainly implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.” — Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207, pp. 217–218

It’s file sharing protected content without authorization, a violation of copy rights.
91 Oct 03, 2009 at 05:46 by Anonymous

@.neo.styles|nvDX

On the cop chase shows they don’t show you the ones that got away. I certainly hope TPB will be the ones that they are afraid to show.
92 Oct 03, 2009 at 06:09 by Torrentino

Funny, Torrentino.net is still hosted in Canada :)
93 Oct 03, 2009 at 06:40 by Daemon_ZOGG

If I had to host The Pirate Bay in Sweden, I would do it through a wireless, mesh network of mobile servers and public wireless access points throughout the area.
A!!
94 Oct 03, 2009 at 06:56 by Bobe-On

@ 87 juero:

I’ll try to collate posts like yours from hereon in.
95 Oct 03, 2009 at 07:31 by Anonymous

DAMMIT. TPB – Die already. Don’t make the Ukraine a target. You suck!
96 Oct 03, 2009 at 07:39 by Jimmy

Stealing is criminal matter.

Copyright Infringement is a civil matter.

They are completely different.
97 Oct 03, 2009 at 08:04 by F

Yes Jimmy thanks for pointing that out.

“Intellectual property” is a bogus concept that has no actual meaning.

Patents, copyrights, and trademarks are what we are talking about, and none of them are “property” so they cannot be stolen.
98 Oct 03, 2009 at 08:50 by About F

wow you are soooo gay!
99 Oct 03, 2009 at 08:52 by michael8124

@93
That’s what I’ve been trying to say if you read my comments on this page, but I couldn’t find the right words.

I just don’t see how something not physical can actually be stolen. That’s like trying to accuse somebody of stealing the air you breath in a parking lot out in public.
100 Oct 03, 2009 at 09:08 by redbaron

What world are we living in? Controlled by entertainment companies. O_O

Way to go, pirate-brothers. Go to East Europe. :P
101 Oct 03, 2009 at 09:26 by Justaguy

Well, while Ukraine is signed on to some of these various internet laws, they seem remarkably uncaring to bother to enforce them. Corruption is fairly rampart, and I donlt think the record industry is really able to deal with the differences in culture between the west (aka North America and Europe) and the east (being Russia and it’s former satillite states)

Hell, most of the worlds biggest botnets are bases in Ukraine and they havenlt been able to dent them. I’m sure in TPB wants to hide deep enough, the record industry won’t be able to touch them… and go forbid if the guys controlling the botnets decide to show the record industry a thing or two.
102 Oct 03, 2009 at 09:52 by youruinedmylife

@ruinyourlife

YOU ARE A PUDWHACK! YOU COULDN’T GET LAID IN A MORGUE WITH A HUNDRED DOLLAR BILL HANGING OUT YOUR FLY!
103 Oct 03, 2009 at 09:57 by Reasoned Mind

I’m only paid very little to post on forums against file-sharing. It’s little more than $4000 per week. Hardly worth the effort. My earnings are in the millions. I’ve starting to think I should give it up, it’s very hard to survive on such little money.
104 Oct 03, 2009 at 10:19 by margus

I wonder what would happen if pirate oil could be produced over the Internet. Ultra rich oil countries will have open war against those countries that support Interne pirate oil production.
105 Oct 03, 2009 at 10:41 by lol

Just ignore the pro-mafiaa trolls. The pirate bay remains up despite all this strong handing from the capitalist pigs. Thats the ultimate fuck you – they will never win this fight, it will go on and on and i just giggle at the thought of that. Try not to let the paid trolls wind you up
106 Oct 03, 2009 at 10:46 by KcEasy p2p

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107 Oct 03, 2009 at 10:59 by JAT

@trolls : if I follow your thoughts, when you see a movie at a friend’s house, it’s STEALING, you don’t pay the creators… call it what you want, it’s still stealing!
108 Oct 03, 2009 at 12:06 by Proud Freetard.

You are stealing several things. First off, when you download things, do you pay the creators? No? So how are they supposed to earn money.

Having a clear business plan and producing something. Live Gigs, merch and B2B are only the forms on the top of my head right now. If you want any other forms in detail on how to do it you can either look what big names are doing and getting millions like Madonna that sells things from T-Shirts and coffee mugs to CD’s or you pay me as a consultant to guide you moron through life.

First off, you are stealing their right to profit from their own work.

You must not have gone very far in school did you?

Infringing may make difficult to someone to extract 100% of revenue from something but it never makes the market for the original creator completely zero either or else people would never buy another CD from anyone ever is that what happens on the market?

Or sharing is just like Radio that no listener pays but labels want it so bad that they even made the payola scandal a reality. Incredible labels paid to radios to play their songs when radio in the U.S. never paid a cent to performers. Radio destroyed the market? It did not, what radio did was promote that music, in the internet the same thing. Labels and studios are bending over to Google beause they can’t afford to be left out of the free promotional train anymore. Hulu, fearnet, Youtube and others are then stealing from labels and studios? Because I pay nothing to see or hear anything there?
Was Dexter and Californication free posting by their producers on YouTube stealing from themselves?

Second off, movies and music are just like physical products (thanks to something called intellectual property) and if you don’t purchase a license for it, then it’s the equivilent of removing a physical product.

No is not, even the U.S. supreme court agree that copyright infringement is copyright infringement and not like run off the mill thieving look it up and educate yourself or be a moron either way I don’t care.

Im sorry if you don’t like the laws, but that doesn’t change them or the very simple moral imperatives that apply here.

Oh! this is precious LoL
You trying to reinvent the law to fit your views saying is stealing when the law states otherwise is what then.

About reality. Nobody took the power of the creator to sell anything, if that were true you wouldn’t be able to sell anything anywhere whick clearly isn’t true
109 Oct 03, 2009 at 12:09 by Anonymous

The only thing being stolen is the fun from fans.
110 Oct 03, 2009 at 12:17 by Reasoned Mind Blows

Come to http://extratorrent.com/.. for articles written by those inside the torrent world.
111 Oct 03, 2009 at 12:19 by Anonymous

Pirates are not responsible for incompetence to map a business plan and the inability from oneself in producing appealing products that people want to pay for.

Pirates are not responsible for idiots that think intangible goods should have a pricing like physical goods and don’t even get that when you can produce infinite goods is more like grains and should be priced accordingly by the ton and not by the grain.
112 Oct 03, 2009 at 12:20 by wf

@61 Reasoned Mind says, “our privacy stops right at the edge of using it to shield unlawful acts…”

So pass a law that requires all personal computers to be scanned for illicit content. Call it, “The Big Brother Scan” and make everyone comply. Guaranteed you’d catch a lot of pirates, child pornographers, terrorists, insider trading, political dissidents and so on.

That attitude birthed gems like “The Patriot Act” and Guantanamo Bay prison. Fortunately, our rights are NOT stripped when we commit unlawful acts. To the contrary, that’s when our rights become the most important. Indeed, many known criminals have been set free because their rights were ignored. Unlawful acts have been shielded when illegal search or illegal wiretap were used.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither” – Ben Franklin.

In order to have freedom, there must be privacy. Society must allow private communications between individuals and anonymous free speech. Unfortunately, these rights come with collateral damage like defamation, acts of terrorism and yes, some copyright infringement.

At least in the case of the Patriot Act, rights were trampled in the name of physical safety. What’s the RIAA/MPAA excuse? Corporate profits?
113 Oct 03, 2009 at 13:14 by me

why dont they try a democratic nation like canada?
114 Oct 03, 2009 at 13:21 by HelpfulJonsey

The RIAA/MPAA simply refuse to admit that they are nearing the end of their usefulness. Well, that’s understandable. A dying man will take any desperate measure to survive and we should expect the RIAA/MPAA to do the same.

So what can we do? It’s really simple. Endeavor to contribute as little as possible to the RIAA/MPAA revenue streams while contributing as much as you like directly to the performers you like.

The performers still need to make a living to enable them to keep performing. Support them by: attending their gigs, buying their concert merch, flat out donate to them if you like. Contribute in any way you can to help your fav performers out — just *minimize* any revenue to the RIAA/MPAA.

We just need to learn which products mostly feed the RIAA/MPAA and which products mostly benefit the performer. Then, if/when you are going to spend money — make sure as little (or none) goes to products that mostly benefit the RIAA/MPAA.

Tell two friends and encourage them to tell two friends. Ain’t nothing to it, but to *do* it.
115 Oct 03, 2009 at 13:33 by NotLazy

I’m a software developer, you can “steal” my code if you want, I don’t care… why?

Well, I don’t produce something once, then sit on my ass for eternity and expect everyone to have to pay an extortionate amount for that product.

No, what I do, is develop an engine, pitch it to customers and then bespoke it to each one. Changing anything up to 30% of the original product to be tailored to their needs.

Even if I didn’t do that, they could have the software for free and I’d just charge for support and modifications.

It’s called “working for a living”, being prepared to put in effort daily to generate a steady income. It is something the MPAA/RIAA and their representatives that post here will never understand.

“artists” can tour and do gigs, they can make money through royalties and any commercial use of their work, if they’re good and have a fan base they can also use merchandise. – And with any fame they get they can capitalize on it through sponsership/advertising, publishing/producing physical units of product, etc. (maybe write a book or something)

If “artists” and the greedy, lazy industry around them are as prepared to put effort into generating an income for themselves as I am (and many other people are for themselves) they’ll be fine.

No, instead the MAFIAA industry waste billions on producing cookie-cutter garbage, using computer programs that tell them what melodies will shift the most units of product. Whilst propping up bullshit, lame, so-called “artists” who’d never have got anywhere without the monopolistic stranglehold the MAFIAA have held over broadcasting.

An industry, at least in terms of the RIAA, that has been caught price-fixing and who’s overheads-to-profit ratio is extreme enough to all it extortion.

The industry had a free ride, gouging consumers with their corrupt practices and excessive profiteering.

Even the “artists” can stfu… If you think a couple of months of “hard” work should afford you the ability to be able to sit back for the rest of your life reaping excessive profits and live a life of luxury, whilst everyone else is expected to work tirelessly their whole lives just to survive… then maybe that’s where the real problem is.

In a world where most people can produce reasonably good content and promote it for free, the acceptable/perceived value of content has fallen through the floor but the industry DOES NOT WANT TO ACCEPT THIS, even though it was inevitable.

The industry and it’s “artists” will have to find stronger business models because this current campaign of remaining lazy, greedy and litigating anything that threatens their monopoly… is failing.
116 Oct 03, 2009 at 13:48 by Reasoned Mind

@wf, 106
“So pass a law that requires all personal computers to be scanned for illicit content.”

Those laws already exist. And increasingly enforced. Almost 2000 computers were seized and searched at the Canadian border last year. Further, with probable cause and a warrant, virtually anything can be searched and seized in the United States. That’s why Joel Tenenbaum had to give up to multiple harddrive searches. That’s why Jammie Thomas, moron that she is, destroyed some evidence and tried to surreptitiously replace her harddrive. And the probable cause to warrant these searches is evident already. It remains to be seen if the courts will allow a general screening online. I think with probable cause, they will. It will be a laborious and expensive process that will be billed through ISP’s to the consumer, just as the cost of shoplifting impediments is borne by the added cost to the products they protect. This all seems perfectly fair to me, it’s regrettable, but when not have the many paid for the sins of a few?

As for privacy, wf, you have a lot of reading to do and I can only speak for the United States. But the word privacy is not even mentioned in the US Constitution. The 1st amendment allows peaceable assembly, a form of privacy, and 4th amendment deals with searches, but searches are clearly allowed with cause and a warrant. And as you point out, the “Patriot” Act walked right over many protections, and the people accept it, so the trends are clear. Only the constitution of California grants “inalienable right” status to privacy, and even then California has one of our largest prison populations, so privacy clearly isn’t inalienable. If it were, NOTHING could abridge it.

“Collateral damage” is a term for OTHER peoples losses, but when that damage is our own we fight like hell, and I respect that. The RIAA and the MPAA need no “excuses.” They are working within the law and many here don’t like the goal, the process or the outcome. Too bad. Suck it up. It’s only going to get worse and worse the longer you are unlawful. Gather the votes and make the changes or be hunted, apprehended and penalized in increasingly big ways. There is no essential liberty in your basement when you use it for unlawful acts and with probable cause, the authorities are going in, just as they should. Stop giving them probable cause and then we’ll have something real to discuss. But your “beliefs” in your “rights” are a pipedream.
117 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:34 by dave

‘It remains to be seen if the courts will allow a general screening online. I think with probable cause, they will.’

I am curious, what probable cause would that be in your mind?

And what ‘general screening’ methodes are allowed in your mind?

getting a list of all files on a computer? obtaining those files? reading everybodys email? Opening all packages which are sent by normal mail? Camera’s peeking through your windows? Camera’s in your house? In your bedroom? Chips implanted in convicted people? Implanted in their children? Implanted in everybody?

Where will it stop?
118 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:35 by scurvydogg38

try this google keyword seach, looks like they index torrents to me

site:thepiratebay.org/torrent

Free the internet!!!

Spread the word!

who they gonna judge, when they’re be pirates everywhere ;D

aye matey, fair weather ahead
119 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:38 by scurvydogg38

@112 sorry wrong article
120 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:43 by dave

as I said before:

It is ok for me to go after the people who make a lot of money out of the products made by others without giving anything reasonable back but leave the little man who likes to hear music on their computer alone.
121 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:44 by Daniel Wijk

.neo.styles|nvDX: The Bern convention are 100% compatible with the things TPB are doing. Dont use words if you dont understand them.
122 Oct 03, 2009 at 14:49 by me

http://www.hulu.com/..
123 Oct 03, 2009 at 15:13 by Reasoned Mind

tinyurl.com/adultfacebook
124 Oct 03, 2009 at 15:36 by luigi

tracker.thepiratebay.org is in Spain – seems like they moved the Tracker there. I don’t think that’s a bad choice.
125 Oct 03, 2009 at 16:03 by adewolf

Why is public money being spent to defend private companies profits? Seems kinda backwards and the tax payers should get a vote on this.
126 Oct 03, 2009 at 16:04 by Story NEEDS AN UPDATE/CORRECTION

Story seems to be wrong. Pirate Bay is NOT in Ukraine!!!
127 Oct 03, 2009 at 16:25 by baba mooist

The governments pick and choose which laws they want to obey. The politician are just corporate lap dogs – totally corrupt and ethically bankrupt.

Thus I choose which of their laws I choose to follow.
128 Oct 03, 2009 at 17:03 by Fucku

The Pirates still online is simply amazing. GO TPB!!!
129 Oct 03, 2009 at 17:10 by Jax

How can a court hold a civil claim against 4 individuals against a site hosted by a company not sentenced to anything???
130 Oct 03, 2009 at 17:13 by Recton Kracke

Many thanks to the Pirate Bay crew for providing not only torrents but years of family fun with their real life antics.

Like Dillinger, they give the pigs the finger and step on the gas…
131 Oct 03, 2009 at 18:29 by Anonymous

@ruin your life

no its not just getting something for free its sharing. reasoned mind must be schizophrenic or something. get some help man.
132 Oct 03, 2009 at 19:08 by Listen Up

About stealing and laws and amnesty and whatnot:

1. Stealing at the very least implies some kind of material loss, be it in value or physical substance. If I download a song and tell 10 people it’s great who did not know about it without me, then you now suddenly have “1 lost sale” and 10 buyers. Net sum is a profit. Since there was nothing physical involved, you would look at generated vs lost value here. The download created more sales, created more profit. Therefore calling making more profit stealing does not work out. Therefore the argument that any and all illegal downloading equates stealing is not valid, nor logical. Downloading is not stealing, q.e.d.

2. Legality.
Laws used to be arrangements by a society to govern them. To find a way to best further everyone involved and based on a COMMON agreement. When there is a clear divergence between how a majority feels and how laws are made, then there is no longer the same basis for that dilemma. It’s sensible for everyone to say it’s illegal for me to kill anyone so that it is also illegal for everyone else to kill someone, hence we are all protected and sanctioned accordingly.
Yet if folks see artists driving limousines and living in mansions DESPITE being among the top 10 ranked most pirated artists of the last 10 years, they start to wonder just whose laws it is they are suppposedly breaking.

This is the point all local industry trolls keep missing, both Neogay and Pavlovtrained Mind. Sure it’s illegal. There are laws being broken. It’s just that the laws that ARE being broken by literally millions were created by literally a handful that aren’t millions, but HAVE millions. Being lawful is not the same as being morally right if it wasn’t an ethical, but a financial superiority that caused the law to be created.
You individually might feel it’s unethical to download something, but just as many people, or more, or fewer, might feel it’s just as unethical to pursue filesharing in the first place. Let alone abolishing freedom and civil liberties alongside, but that’s another topic altogether.
Bottom line is that if an organized industry lobby has an easy time passing legislation that solely benefits them and their represented minority(artists in any society ARE a minority, undeniably), then it’s not because they are just, or righteous or have a failsafe way of obtaining an objective, moral truth and ethic ruleset. It is simply because their genre and industry branch has an INSANE amount of money at their disposal, coming, ironically, from the same people who download their creative goods in the first place and against whom they create these laws.

There is no objective truth in the world.
There are only inter-subjective agreements and laws made by people. Unfortunately the way capitalistic democracy has evolved, there exist several ways for a financially superior few to “have their way” within this system. If you don’t believe me, then look into the creation of the very legislation that caused the financial crisis we are in. Those that have will have their way, simply because they can buy together enough voting power for it. Laws are created by interestes, not by justice. If you argue that, then you are severely devoid of exposure to reality.

Hence, filesharing may very well be against the laws that exist; however that by itself does not express any positive or negative property if one admits readily that creation of laws can be manipulated, created or even avoided by interest groups with enough financial and power/influence ties.
It just means that there exists a law, which may or not have an ethical value, which forbids that which millions of people enjoy and pursue day in, day out.

Whether forbidding those very people that way of educating, entertaining and furthering themselves is ethically wrong, because there is an as of yet unproven peril towards overall creativity, is up for discussion.

The people that are looking for a different, open-minded and based on free exchange of ideas and information society are arguing it is not; those that are paid by the same interest groups that created laws to ensure a continued lobby group based monopolism / industry control and finance the trolls here, think nothing about ethics to begin with, but only the bottom line, but try to use the “it’s wrong” argument nonetheless.

We will see how things end up, but so far I can’t see any progress happening until the last technomoron in government dies off and the generation that grew up with p2p and the internet itself takes over in 10-30 years.

3. Missed sales, again, again, again.

This one is gonna be short.
I have an income of 0 EUR.
I download a movie.
How much money has the industry just lost because of this download?

I don’t think I need to elaborate.
Assumption:
A USD / EUR/ JPY etc which does not exist can not be spent.

If this first assumption is true, and setting aside credit and indebtation, then there can be no lost sale if there is no equity with which to generate said sale.

If the second assumption that especially lower income classes, students, teenagers and unemployed “pirate” illegally, then the likelyhood of a true, overall sales impact is minimal, if nigh impossible.

A nonexistant dollar cannot be spent. If there are no expendable dollars, a sale cannot occur, although a download can/could.
A download happens at the same time as a sale remains impossible.
A download does not equal a missed sale.

Q.E.D.

Now can the trolls please stop posting the same void arguments over and over again or someone at least sticky this on top of every comment section?

Kthx.
133 Oct 03, 2009 at 19:09 by ted nose awl

I use ‘flagfox’ in firefox and it’s telling me that the Pirate Bay is located in Sweden…. see http://geotool.flagfox.net/
134 Oct 03, 2009 at 19:15 by Listen Up

@112
This, times a gazillion.

A-f*kin-men.

The trolls wouldn’t understand though, they just have to post in various internet forums and comments to get paid.
135 Oct 03, 2009 at 19:16 by James Holdger

@ReasonedMind:

The MAFIAA is not a police authority. They can’t do anything on their own. Or at least, they should not be allowed to act as they are the police. They should not be allowed, by law, to collect IP addresses. That’s sensitive information and protected by law.

In order for the police to be given a search warrant, they must have a REAl reason. They must have done some investigation, the police, not the MAFIAA, then based on these investigations, they should go to the judge and ask for a search warrant.

For some odd reason, the MAFIAA is acting like they are the police, like they have that kind of power, which they do not have, and nobody does anything about it; not the governments, and not the real police.

I call this huge corruption, of the governments, of the police, of the authorities. Corruption because the MAFIAA is just a money making machine and not the police, yet they’re “de facto” given police powers.

Do you think this is lawful?
136 Oct 03, 2009 at 20:03 by Anonymous

@132 – Your sport on. I think it is just amazing that this is continually allowed to happen on an international, multi-government level. It is baffling. That is the main reason I follow all of this stuff. The pirates just happen to be the guys targeted at this point.
137 Oct 03, 2009 at 20:26 by RIAA, MPAA suck

Personally I don’t like Hugo Chavez but I think Venezuela would be more than happy to host TPB.
138 Oct 03, 2009 at 20:30 by Reasoned Mind

@James, 132,
“Do you think this is lawful?”

Actually James, in the USA this online surveillance is conducted by third parties, some licensed, some not, some are viewed as private investigators, some not. But in all applicable trials so far, AFAIK, MediaSentry and others in different jurisdictions around the world actually collect the evidence and submit it at trial. And in Jammie’s and Joel’s trials, it’s been admissible and has stood the scrutiny of technical cross examination.

I know you think it’s all “corruption.”
Hey. As you wish.

:-)
139 Oct 03, 2009 at 20:30 by SickOfIt

Want me to pay for your shit? Make me.
Whats that? You can’t? Then fuck off.
140 Oct 03, 2009 at 23:19 by Kickass_Sid

Welcome to Ukraine dudes!
We support file sharing!
141 Oct 03, 2009 at 23:43 by wf

@116 Reasoned Mind

Yes, I see and object to civil liberty slipping away in the name of counter-terrorism. For that cause, many will say the ends justify the means, but who wants to erode liberty so that Sony can pocket a few more bucks off Britney Spears or Disney can milk Mickey Mouse for another decade?

“Privacy” is not mentioned in the US Constitution but “unreasonable search and seizure” is pretty close and the Supreme Court ruled there is an implicit right to privacy (Roe v. Wade).

I have two points. First, the term on copyright is far, far too long. Yet it keeps getting extended as individual rights shrink. Second, privacy and freedom of speech SHOULD allow TPB to operate an anonymous service without monitoring or censoring the users. Merely running a P2P tracker and naming it “Pirate” should NOT constitute contributory copyright infringement or justify search and seizure. That’s just my opinion. I know many legislators and judges disagree. Please vote them out of office.
142 Oct 04, 2009 at 00:51 by William

This is a sad day for democracy in Sweden.
143 Oct 04, 2009 at 02:45 by Copyright is Censorship

care to challange that, “Reasoned Mind”/”Neo styles”/troll?
144 Oct 04, 2009 at 04:43 by doing my bit...

I go by this logic…

I own a HD tv and a bluray player but i also own a computer. Every so often i download the odd movie usually on xvid…i know, the trolls will say they’ve lost a sale but alas they haven’t simply because if it is a really good movie i go buy the thing on bluray when it comes out for little bit extra quality and dimension because its actually worth it where as a cheap nasty straight to the furnace movie wouldn’t be worth buying even in standard definition let alone something like bluray you know the knid i mean where they get a tax credit and even if it fails they can claim insurance on the losses so everyones still happy ;)Case in point i got hold of transformers 2 the other day and although the story wasnt amazing the effects and action sequences were and so when it comes out in a few weeks i’m hitting the store for the bluray…Curious George 2 wouldn’t even grace my bootlegged betamax collection ;)
I guess what i am trying to say is that sometimes even if you download a product you will still go see it at the cinema and even buy it on a dvd format and maybe if it is really good even buy the game if there is one. So the people who have the most creativity can create more high standard fare and the lamers who churn out crap go back to flipping burgers…

Ps : i did my bit for the movie industry the other day by paying a fortune to see pandorum which i thought was quite a good movie and i was glad i saw that as opposed to Sorority row lol…roll on 2012 which i will also part with money to see and also hope it is great.

right that’s my little rant out the way and i hope that one day Roger Corman makes a movie starring trolls so that all those on here will have something better to do lol.
145 Oct 04, 2009 at 05:42 by Reasoned Mind

Hi, I’m a pedo-loving poop-eater and I love to eat my own poops, and other poops from toilets that kids pooped in, and I’m sitting in a giant bag of kid poop right now, typing about how I love poop. Any time I say anything retarded about pirates, or file-sharing, or whatever I think I know something about, I’m really just saying, “Hey, who doesn’t love poop? I’m eating a big plate right now, yum-yum!” Also, congrats for reading the comments ALLLLLL the way down to here LOL.
146 Oct 04, 2009 at 05:45 by Reasoned Mind

Oh yeah, and that post is just relating to the very first one on this thread, comparing torrent-hosters to pedophiles. (Srsly, WTF?) I didn’t even bother to see if you’d posted anything else, which I guess you did, who cares though. Anyways, hey, now it’s really me, Reasoned Mind again, swimming in my poop tub with naked kids, whee!
147 Oct 04, 2009 at 05:51 by 5318008

Great movie, would definitely recommend. 8/10 vid, 9/10 aud. Just unRAR and watch in your favorite media player. Easy!
148 Oct 04, 2009 at 06:07 by Koss

It shows who REALLY runs the government of the western world: big companies with many lawyers. Those “democrate” governments really showed them alright!
149 Oct 04, 2009 at 08:42 by Anonymous

@20 Reasoned Mind

“I am a huge troll, please kill me.”

Blam!

You are welcome!
150 Oct 04, 2009 at 08:44 by Anonymous

The entertainment corporations of parasites said that we were stealing but now since they killed the law we can kill them.

Can we?
151 Oct 04, 2009 at 08:56 by me

@ #144 really who can read this many?
152 Oct 04, 2009 at 09:43 by James Holdger

@ReasonedMind:

The point is, has MediaSentry be given explicit police powers?

Also, the fact that some are just “viewed” as private investigators, does not mean that they are. If I want, I can also start to collect IP addresses and sell them to the MAFIAA, would that make me a private investigator?

That would make me a criminal, because IPs are sensible information and therefore protected by the law. Yet MediaSentry is allowed to collect and share them “de facto”. Are they explicitally allowed to do it “de jure” as well?
153 Oct 04, 2009 at 10:26 by Common Man

BigJ’s post (42) and Listen Up’s post (132) are well worth reading.

My hearty thanks to both.
154 Oct 04, 2009 at 11:21 by Jeff

Said by ruinyourlife:

“On my phone so this will be short. I’m not a troll. I pirate more then most of you probably. Why can’t you just admit its unlawful?”

The key word here is unlawful. In most cases, copyright infringement of the kind that most torrent users engage in is subject to civil penalties (meaning you can be sued in court for doing it).

In some cases, you can also be prosecuted. Though here they tend to go after the admins and owners of torrent sites (Elite Torrents, OiNK, etc.), or after those who upload pre-release content.
155 Oct 04, 2009 at 16:10 by PG

The most tragic thing in all of this is the fact that TPB doesn’t host any illegal materials at all – and never have.

All materials shared (and TPB believes that all materials has a right to be shared) reside entirely on the visitors machines. There’s not a single illegal bit anywhere on TPBs systems. But because they argue for unlimited filesharing they’re a pariah that must be quashed.

The portal and search indexes cannot be the reason because Google performs the exact same function and as far as I know hasn’t been targeted by the industry (yet). But then the industry may not want to take on Google who certainly can afford an army of lawyers to counter all the silly threats made by the industry.
156 Oct 04, 2009 at 17:09 by Boomerang

If I’d have all that TPB ad revenue, I’d invest it in some high dividend yielding stocks!

http://www.TopDividendYields.com/..
157 Oct 04, 2009 at 21:17 by Redeemer

The site is still in Sweden.
158 Oct 04, 2009 at 22:18 by Reasoned Mind

PG 154, I don’t think the Pirate Bay was convicted through legal action because they argue for unlimited filesharing. There’s nothing unlawful about that.

I think the Pirate Bay was convicted through legal action because they facilitate unlimited filesharing. Facilitating any kind of unlawful behavior is unlawful. Would you argue that it should not be?
159 Oct 05, 2009 at 00:06 by a1a

its the data’s fault, if it weren’t so sexy, i would have to steal it!
160 Oct 05, 2009 at 02:17 by foo

looks to be anycasted by dcpnetworks.net to me …
161 Oct 05, 2009 at 02:23 by Mr. Briggs

@113 (me):

“why dont they try a democratic nation like canada?”

NEVAR. I would never want The Pirate Bay in Canada. They’re too cocky. (As in, selfish and arrogant.)
162 Oct 05, 2009 at 08:15 by .neo.styles|nvDX

Yes, I see and object to civil liberty slipping away in the name of counter-terrorism. For that cause, many will say the ends justify the means, but who wants to erode liberty so that Sony can pocket a few more bucks off Britney Spears or Disney can milk Mickey Mouse for another decade?

It NOT your civil liberty to circumvent payment. It’s also not just “a few extra dollars”, it’s millions in lost profits. I doubt you would be so quick to dismiss it if it was your money.

“Privacy” is not mentioned in the US Constitution but “unreasonable search and seizure” is pretty close and the Supreme Court ruled there is an implicit right to privacy (Roe v. Wade).

So, therefor you expect comapanies to just stand by why they lose money and do nothing because of internet anonymity?

Hi, I’m a pedo-loving poop-eater and I love to eat my own poops, and other poops from toilets that kids pooped in, and I’m sitting in a giant bag of kid poop right now, typing about how I love poop. Any time I say anything retarded about pirates, or file-sharing, or whatever I think I know something about, I’m really just saying, “Hey, who doesn’t love poop? I’m eating a big plate right now, yum-yum!” Also, congrats for reading the comments ALLLLLL the way down to here LOL.

LOL
I love responses like this. They just show how powerless pirates are to defend themselves.
163 Oct 05, 2009 at 12:53 by NotLazy

“millions in lost profits” … Neo, repeating a lie doesn’t make it true.

If people had no intention of buying (or didn’t have the money to buy) the product, then it equates to zero loss.

You can keep trying to perpetuate the myth but there is no empirical evidence to support there being anything more than a statistically insignificant loss. We’re talking 1-2%, with many filesharers being heavier consumers of legitimately bought ‘units of product’.

Got anything new, got any hard evidence or still just spewing what you are paid to spew?
164 Oct 05, 2009 at 13:39 by BlackFlag

The Pirate Bay is all but finished.. it has served its purpose, for far longer than was even intended … TPB rode high on the waves, fired cannons at the hollywood bigwigs and even made some headway, but the ship is all but scuttled now …its time to find your own way to new waters kids… and don’t forget about the openbittorent tracker for the time being…it could be useful in supporting the bay’s legacy
165 Oct 05, 2009 at 15:55 by me

@101 Justaguy: “I’m sure in TPB wants to hide deep enough, the record industry won’t be able to touch them…”

Hmmm… sorry, but right now, they still can. E.g. there are two points where TPB are still vulnerable: 1.) the ORG registry, 2.) the big 5 to 6 tier-1 network operators.

Let’s face it: ALL centralized trackers and torrent distribution websites like TPB, Demonoid et al. WILL sooner or later become target of the big bad MAFIAA in one way or the other. Decentralized (ideally anonymous) distribution networks (a la botnets) is the way to go, IMHO.

You can shoot an elephant, but you can’t shoot billions of mosquitoes.

Yet it’s nice to see venerable TPB still alive in that timeless and endless cat and mouse chase between greedy corporations with deep pockets and their bought laws and governments on one side, and the ever growing file sharers community on the other side. An epic battle indeed.
166 Oct 05, 2009 at 19:35 by Ninja

I sincerely stopped at 40-something..

@ 42 Oct 02, 2009 at 22:55 by BigJ
You are right man. I also download and so I choose what I’ll buy and what is not worth it. Downloads also give me the power to decide if a DVD is worth $20 or $100 and if I should wait the price to go down. In the worst case, the media is not worth buying but it’s not worthless enough to be deleted (which is odd cause there are some stuff here I listened to or watched only once so they are as good as deleted lmao).

In the old days, people had little choice on material products such as cars, electronics and so on. Today they can choose among several brands and if they don’t like what they bought they can go and get their money back. It’s a matter of time till the entertainment industry is forced to adapt to that logic. The difference is we don’t buy then get our money back, we just download and never give them our money if the content is sh*tty.
167 Oct 05, 2009 at 20:18 by rouge23465

site down again today… cant seem to find a good ip to trace against, the 107 block is out. destination host unreachable after only a single hop
168 Oct 05, 2009 at 21:58 by jhva

you can always come to mexico! from here we can kick gringo’s law arse
169 Oct 05, 2009 at 23:16 by Anonymous

because my dream is to live off 1980’s Soviet Communication Bureau infrastructure too…

Nationalist politics is to complicated for me. If you think that Swedish police are rough… you are in for a treat. Expect RAIDS, where the members will not just have a “slap” on the wrist like you Eurotrash Sweds are use to, in Eastern Europe, we do things differently.

Remember, in Soviet Russia, TRUCK DRIVES YOU! So be prepared for a level of corporate corruption on a level you have NEVER seen before! Where international (American owned, but taxed in the Cayman’s) corporations can control Military/police forces of another former Soviet SSR sovereign nation, for their will? Mosy on over to englishrussia for a quick looky loo.
170 Oct 06, 2009 at 00:09 by Rich

What I don’t understand is: since bittorrents are files broken into pieces which are stored on computers all over the web, why can’t you make a website using the same idea? Why can’t Pirate Bay be a site which is broken into pieces and shared out in millions of computers all over the web? Then you would have to shut down millions of computers instead of just one to get rid of the Pirate Bay.
171 Oct 06, 2009 at 01:26 by Nuns

@170
There already is such a thing, called “Freenet”. Speeds are terrible, because barely anyone is willing or able to provide b/w.
Also it’s like a second layered internet inside the internet..where basically in theory every node hosts everyone / could host everyone / be hosting everyone. It’s a case of plausible deniability, but so far still barely known or popular, let alone indexed and properly searchable.

But bottom line is that if the industry manages to destroy all kinds of “public” / visible attempts at p2p, then it will just be real mixed and remixed Darknets taking the place of this, where theoretically you could arrange it so that anyone could have anything and might be providing/”seeding” data they are unaware of, simply due to them having allocated space and b/w towards the net.
Not sure what legislation would do then..basially everyone would be like a very ISP/webhoster, but without being able to know just exactly what they’re hosting..they could only legislate against the concept of this type of net itself, not any individual, which would finally be true and all out open censorship, which I have no doubt they would do in a heartbeat.

Just look at our trolls. They get a boner just thinking about something bad happening to another human being trying to get some knowledge.
172 Oct 06, 2009 at 04:47 by Pedestrian

Why not have multiple ISP’s? Instead of relying on just one, why not have 10? That way When one closes you already have another one to fall back on?
173 Oct 06, 2009 at 06:05 by DarwinAwardwinner

@166
Your correct, most of these new bands and movie makers cant come up with anything good so I don’t give them my money, And I believe they KNOW they suck and the ONLY way they can get there grubby hands on my money is to trick me into buying by flashy adds or only showing all the decent parts in previews….Oh and if somebody said “dude, try this band!”
I’m NOT going to run out and drop 20 bones on it……I did that before and ended up wasting my money on crappy music nobody wants (don’t listen to a stoner)
174 Oct 06, 2009 at 08:53 by Anonymuse

ZZZZ
175 Oct 06, 2009 at 12:52 by Imright

If torrenting is illegal, then watching a movie you own with friends or playing a game you own with friends is illegal….nope, fuck them and move on to the 100s other torrents
176 Oct 06, 2009 at 13:14 by Imright

i use iso hunt, its sometimes better than going through massive amounts of as on TPB, its a great alternative, SHARING WILL NEVER DIE
177 Oct 06, 2009 at 13:21 by Ukrainian

Welcome to Ukraine!
178 Oct 06, 2009 at 14:16 by Anonymous

@161

“why dont they try a democratic nation like canada?”

NEVAR. I would never want The Pirate Bay in Canada. They’re too cocky. (As in, selfish and arrogant.)

Your mixing Canada with US
179 Oct 06, 2009 at 14:17 by Anonymuse

@161

“why dont they try a democratic nation like canada?”

NEVAR. I would never want The Pirate Bay in Canada. They’re too cocky. (As in, selfish and arrogant.)

Your mixing Canada with US
180 Oct 06, 2009 at 15:29 by awake

And the industry does it’s bidding again. Have you found out your a puppet yet? If not wake up! You consume what the industry wants – not what you think you want.

Great programming going on here…

Refuse the fear.
181 Oct 07, 2009 at 00:20 by Spotless look

I’m afraid that the government can close TPB for all ukrainians,just like demonoid, and i don’t want it because i’m living in Ukraine and i like TPB
182 Oct 07, 2009 at 00:59 by wf

…you expect companies to just stand by while they lose money and do nothing because of internet anonymity?

Companies need to find another way to make money that does not encroach civil liberties. Look at the big picture. Anonymous free speech is a cornerstone of freedom. Without freedom there is no capitalism. Without capitalism there are no profits to protect!

Companies that squash liberty for short-term profit simply hasten their own long-term demise. Freedom trumps capitalism.
183 Oct 07, 2009 at 04:20 by CDXX

TPB is down again… Grrrrrr…
184 Oct 07, 2009 at 21:21 by not really

I am utterly sick of going to a theatre in the USA, paying 10 bucks a head, plus parking, only to sit through some bull total crap like “The Postman” (I still want those 3 hours of my life back!!!). Or buying a record to find that only one or two tracks are good and that the rest is filler crap. That’s why I dload torrented files. If I REALLY like the result, I will buy the DVD or sometimes to go the theatre, or most specifically actually support the artist. Other than that, they are ripping me off by producing garbabe, so right back at them. They can felch me for all I care. And so can you if you don’t like what I think about it. In fact, if you don’t like what I have to say, keep it to yourself, because I DON’T CARE A BIT. END.

http://torrentfreak.com/..



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